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Wrong algorithm giving the right solution... mostly
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StayFun



Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue, 10 May 2005 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Wrong algorithm giving the right solution... mostly Reply with quote

QueQueg wrote:
My incorrect algorithm gave me correct answers enough times to be invited to join the Fraternity, but it was only after discussing it with a friend that had found the "real" answer, that I realized my mistake.


Your solution is correct 100%! Think about it... it's only the petals, and not the rose, that counts (yeah, pun intended Wink )
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hay.mail@btinternet.com



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hint point to the "petals" answer being the "correct" one. However, if two methods always give the same result then who is to say that one is more correct than the other?

I have attempted an even more algorithmic expression of "sum the odd die and subtract the number of odd die". Prepare to be confused by some bracket nesting:

SUM (i=1,5) {((1- (-1)^Vi).(Vi-1))/2}

Where Vi is the value of die i (i ranges from 1 to 5).

NB This is pseudocode/pseudonotation. Unfortunately I can't post sigma notation!
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StayFun



Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed, 11 May 2005 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hay.mail@btinternet.com wrote:
The hint point to the "petals" answer being the "correct" one. However, if two methods always give the same result then who is to say that one is more correct than the other?

If you can prove, that both are equivalent, and even better if you can show how to go from one to another (and back), then both are equal(ly correct).

The 'intended' method with Petals of the Rose is, of course, to see the 'obvious', instead of some very complicated mathematical equation. But if you apply my explanation from my previous post to your method, you'll see both methods are equal and thus equally correct.

And don't forget to have fun!
A few days ago, I played this game with family: brother, sister-in-law and father. Brother saw it in about 5 minutes Sad, father saw it late at night, when he woke up suddenly Cool and sis still doesn't see it Very Happy
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MoonDog



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 139
Location: Balboa, South California U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu, 12 May 2005 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I learned on these forums, if one had ANY number of mathematically correct results, still the fact remains that ONLY the 'Petals' solution is exactly correct for THIS puzzle. It took a while to pound that through my thick skull, but finally it sunk in! Cheers, All!! Cool
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hay.mail@btinternet.com



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat, 14 May 2005 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="MoonDog"]As I learned on these forums, if one had ANY number of mathematically correct results, still the fact remains that ONLY the 'Petals' solution is exactly correct for THIS puzzle. [/quote]

Why?
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MoonDog



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 139
Location: Balboa, South California U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun, 15 May 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hay.mail; Shall we email? To explain will expose completely this puzzle, which has been asked not to be done.
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jlhorner1974



Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Wrong algorithm giving the right solution... mostly Reply with quote

QueQueg wrote:
My incorrect algorithm gave me correct answers enough times to be invited to join the Fraternity, but it was only after discussing it with a friend that had found the "real" answer, that I realized my mistake.

Here is my answer and why it works most of the time:

My solution was to subtract the # of odd rolls from the sum of the odd rolls. So for this roll:
6 6 5 5 5 the answer would be 15 - 3 and would come out to 12, the correct answer

5 5 6 6 6 the answer would be 10 - 2 and would come out to 10, the correct answer

2 3 4 4 1 the answer would be 4 - 2 and would come out to 2, the correct answer

And so it went through about 15 correct guesses. The website seemed to think I had the correct solution.

If you have the real answer, you'll know what I was doing wrong. I'm just delighted to have found an incorrect answer that works well enough to almost be correct, haha, while still being very wrong and incorrect.

Anyway, this was an extremely interesting logic puzzle, and I enjoyed it immensely.


At StayFun said, you did nothing "wrong" -- your method is more complicated than the "normal" answers, but it does work correctly in every case. I can prove this. PM or e-mail me if you are interested -- I can show you why it works.

As for what is "correct" or not, it depends on how you define what a correct answer is to this puzzle -- in my opinion, this is not precisely defined on the website.

If the correct answer requires you to understand the significance of the title and then use it to solve the problem, then only one answer is correct.

If you need only be able to predict (with 100% accuracy) what result is obtained from any given roll of the dice, then there are several possible solutions.

According to the web applet, you become a potentate of the rose when you get 10 correct answers in a row.
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SammySlim
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PostPosted: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly how I "solved" it - ran the dice 7 times, wrote down the numbers - then just figured out over the course of a few minutes how I could generate the same answer. Took about 15 minutes.

My friend who sent it to me pored over it for weeks, and was bummed when I called him and told him I was a Potentate - then he laughed when he told me the "real" answer, and so did I.

They both work, one is simpler than the other and I think the "petals" answer is what the game is looking for (else why use dice?) but any answer that works is a solution.

Lots of fun.

Cheers
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