
Lloyd Borrett's Web Site Forums related to this web site, Petals Around the Rose and other topics, for you to enjoy!

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StayFun
Joined: 01 May 2005 Posts: 11

Posted: Tue, 10 May 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Wrong algorithm giving the right solution... mostly 


QueQueg wrote:  My incorrect algorithm gave me correct answers enough times to be invited to join the Fraternity, but it was only after discussing it with a friend that had found the "real" answer, that I realized my mistake. 
Your solution is correct 100%! Think about it... it's only the petals, and not the rose, that counts (yeah, pun intended ) _________________ Have fun... StayFun! 

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hay.mail@btinternet.com
Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Posts: 18

Posted: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:13 am Post subject: 


The hint point to the "petals" answer being the "correct" one. However, if two methods always give the same result then who is to say that one is more correct than the other?
I have attempted an even more algorithmic expression of "sum the odd die and subtract the number of odd die". Prepare to be confused by some bracket nesting:
SUM (i=1,5) {((1 (1)^Vi).(Vi1))/2}
Where Vi is the value of die i (i ranges from 1 to 5).
NB This is pseudocode/pseudonotation. Unfortunately I can't post sigma notation! 

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StayFun
Joined: 01 May 2005 Posts: 11

Posted: Wed, 11 May 2005 7:19 am Post subject: 


hay.mail@btinternet.com wrote:  The hint point to the "petals" answer being the "correct" one. However, if two methods always give the same result then who is to say that one is more correct than the other? 
If you can prove, that both are equivalent, and even better if you can show how to go from one to another (and back), then both are equal(ly correct).
The 'intended' method with Petals of the Rose is, of course, to see the 'obvious', instead of some very complicated mathematical equation. But if you apply my explanation from my previous post to your method, you'll see both methods are equal and thus equally correct.
And don't forget to have fun!
A few days ago, I played this game with family: brother, sisterinlaw and father. Brother saw it in about 5 minutes , father saw it late at night, when he woke up suddenly and sis still doesn't see it _________________ Have fun... StayFun! 

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MoonDog
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 139 Location: Balboa, South California U.S.A.

Posted: Thu, 12 May 2005 6:22 am Post subject: 


As I learned on these forums, if one had ANY number of mathematically correct results, still the fact remains that ONLY the 'Petals' solution is exactly correct for THIS puzzle. It took a while to pound that through my thick skull, but finally it sunk in! Cheers, All!! _________________ Live in The Light and See Forever~ MD <kix466@yahoo.com> 

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hay.mail@btinternet.com
Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Posts: 18

Posted: Sat, 14 May 2005 3:40 pm Post subject: 


[quote="MoonDog"]As I learned on these forums, if one had ANY number of mathematically correct results, still the fact remains that ONLY the 'Petals' solution is exactly correct for THIS puzzle. [/quote]
Why? 

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MoonDog
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 139 Location: Balboa, South California U.S.A.

Posted: Sun, 15 May 2005 7:44 am Post subject: 


hay.mail; Shall we email? To explain will expose completely this puzzle, which has been asked not to be done. _________________ Live in The Light and See Forever~ MD <kix466@yahoo.com> 

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jlhorner1974
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 4

Posted: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Wrong algorithm giving the right solution... mostly 


QueQueg wrote:  My incorrect algorithm gave me correct answers enough times to be invited to join the Fraternity, but it was only after discussing it with a friend that had found the "real" answer, that I realized my mistake.
Here is my answer and why it works most of the time:
My solution was to subtract the # of odd rolls from the sum of the odd rolls. So for this roll:
6 6 5 5 5 the answer would be 15  3 and would come out to 12, the correct answer
5 5 6 6 6 the answer would be 10  2 and would come out to 10, the correct answer
2 3 4 4 1 the answer would be 4  2 and would come out to 2, the correct answer
And so it went through about 15 correct guesses. The website seemed to think I had the correct solution.
If you have the real answer, you'll know what I was doing wrong. I'm just delighted to have found an incorrect answer that works well enough to almost be correct, haha, while still being very wrong and incorrect.
Anyway, this was an extremely interesting logic puzzle, and I enjoyed it immensely. 
At StayFun said, you did nothing "wrong"  your method is more complicated than the "normal" answers, but it does work correctly in every case. I can prove this. PM or email me if you are interested  I can show you why it works.
As for what is "correct" or not, it depends on how you define what a correct answer is to this puzzle  in my opinion, this is not precisely defined on the website.
If the correct answer requires you to understand the significance of the title and then use it to solve the problem, then only one answer is correct.
If you need only be able to predict (with 100% accuracy) what result is obtained from any given roll of the dice, then there are several possible solutions.
According to the web applet, you become a potentate of the rose when you get 10 correct answers in a row. 

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SammySlim Guest

Posted: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: 


That's exactly how I "solved" it  ran the dice 7 times, wrote down the numbers  then just figured out over the course of a few minutes how I could generate the same answer. Took about 15 minutes.
My friend who sent it to me pored over it for weeks, and was bummed when I called him and told him I was a Potentate  then he laughed when he told me the "real" answer, and so did I.
They both work, one is simpler than the other and I think the "petals" answer is what the game is looking for (else why use dice?) but any answer that works is a solution.
Lots of fun.
Cheers 

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